Over the years various people have said in different ways that I’m too girly to be a geek and too geeky to be a girl. However, I am both a geek and a girl – a geekgirl. And I’m merely one of the many geekgirls around the world.
Every single geekgirl is precious. In my opinion every single geekgirl should be made to feel welcome and included into our community.
We should be saying to each and every one:
“Welcome geekgirl, you’re here at last; we’ve been waiting for you”.
Instead in Australia, if you call yourself a geekgirl, you might experience a public rebuke (as I did not so long back) like this:
[Source: http://twitter.com/alexburns/statuses/8315283151 28 Jan 2010]
Or if you get excited on a public forum and want to gather the geekgirls together for sharing and growing the community you might be told this:
[Source: Women on Wave – public wave - https://wave.google.com/wave/waveref/googlewave.com/w+buzi-t_KC accessed at 28 May 2010]
All this is because a woman who was a pioneer who inspired many of us in the early days of the web says that she is the only geekgirl.
In fact Rosie registered a trademark for the word geekgirl in 1995. Since then, instead of welcoming all the new geekgirls who followed, she has defended ‘her’ word vigorously.
At first I was surprised and then angry at having someone telling me I couldn’t use the term geekgirl in casual conversation. So being a fan of civil action, I looked up Rosie’s trademark, found it to be limited to “Publication of electronic books, magazines and/or multimedia both online on a communications network and on recorded media including optical disks and magnetic media”, and I thought I could register a trademark outside that scope and then make the term freely available for everyone to use. I’ve now realised that this approach didn’t really communicate my intent.
I have never met Rosie nor communicated directly with her. I bear her no ill will or animosity. I do not presume to intuit her motivations in any of her actions.
It has been reported to me that Rosie is selling t-shirts with the word geekgirl on them – good on her! The more women in the world wandering around with that word emblazoned on their t-shirts the better. Perhaps she can launch out into other garments and knick-knacks too?
But I do call upon Rosie to set the geekgirls free to use these two plain English words that describe them – geeks who are girls.
There is a good model already existing in the open source community for trademarks to co-exist with community usage. A great example is Fedora – where they allow community usage of the word Fedora as outlined here:
“Noncommercial and community web sites
In the past, community members have inquired whether it is permissible to show support for Fedora by:
• placing the Fedora Trademarks on a personal web site or blog to support Fedora
• making a page on a social networking web service to support Fedora
• linking to Fedora from a wiki to provide information or show support for Fedora
The guidelines relating to such usage are set forth in this section.
It is permissible to use the Fedora Trademarks on websites to show your support for the Fedora Project, provided that:
• where possible, the design logo hyperlinks to the Fedora Project website, http://fedoraproject.org/, or if that is not possible, the site includes a prominent link to the Fedora Project website at http://fedoraproject.org/.
• the site indicates clearly that it is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Fedora Project; in addition, where possible:
• the site must include the text “This site is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Fedora Project” prominently on any page that includes the Fedora Trademarks, and
• if the Fedora Trademarks appear in a page header or any area that is designed to be presented on more than one page, the notice must also be designed to be presented on all of those pages as well. (i.e., if the Fedora Trademarks appear in a site-wide header, the informational text must appear in that header or an identically site-wide footer.)
• the site does not use visual styling that could be confusing to viewers or visitors as to whether the site is hosted by or on behalf of the Fedora Project”
[Source: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Noncommercial_and_community_eb_sites at 28 May 2010]
Come on Rosie, isn’t it time for you to set your geekgirl sisters free?
.jpg "269126_10150227865373424_309792548423_7510329_6231730_n (1)")
Wow, with this stunning new ‘interpretation’ on brand and trademarking, I am gonna call myself, ‘cokegirl’ or ‘pepsigirl’, i really can’t decide….
To me, the term geek girl has been the first true identity that I’ve shared with a group of people who I don’t have to justify my passions to and who are like me.
It saddens me that I could be stopped from identifying and empowering women in a similar and often isolated position to me. Hopefully, the forward thinking Rosie will support the cause too.
After all, shouldn’t we be celebrating finding each other and not fighting over who gets to use two words?
Damana
Really interesting post, I find it sad and disappointing that someone would want to keep something like this for themselves when it could have so much more meaning and value if it was free.
So – on teh interwebs it is easy to get your words muddled.
So – girlgeeks we are then?
hi, I’m girlgeek,
feel free to use ‘my’ name anywhere you like!
kthxbai, gg.
Oh for heaven’s sake, what a load of rubbish. This woman sounds like she just wants to be in the centre of attention. The two words are commonly used together, and people are going to use them. If she doesn’t like it, then she should re-assess her priorities and make something positive from it instead of being so bloody negative. Either that or get over it!
Surely she has better things to do with her life than internet policing twitter hashtags, seriously -_-
@liedra
She has to police the use of her trademark and be able to demonstrate steps taken to protect it should it ever be contested in court – irrespective of whether she should ever have been granted this particular trademark.
But people use trademarks ALL THE TIME in things like twitter and whatnot. If it’s not a competing commercial entity (or non-profit entity) then I don’t see what the problem is. If anything she should use it as potential advertising in a positive way.
To take a collective culture and deny it a voice is to deny your own subculture! Rosiex wouldn’t have a voice or a “brand” without us!
Maybe we should rebel and all become TechGirls and boycott “geekgirl” for her lack of understanding of her own kind
Hahah I just realised she was messaging me in that wave as I haven’t looked at it for ages.
Friendly enough message, but I really don’t understand how anyone thinks they can own words that are in common usage.
I should probably log back into Wave sometime and respond, although I really have no idea what to say as the whole things is so hard to grasp.
There is no way one person can defend the use of the term “geekgirl” everywhere, especially online. In fact, it’s been in use longer than her trademark on it.
I agree that Rosie should be empowering us fellow geekgirls and not holding on to a term just to make a quick buck. It stinks of a selfish and holier-than-thou attitude.
Perhaps we should all start using the term more often. I know this geekgirl will.
I had no idea about any of this, so good on your for getting it out there!
All geek girls, nerd girls and riot grrls need to band together for the common good. And call off their feral boyfriends too, so not cool :/
I am now totally confused, as I have just read Rosie’s blog on the subject…
http://geekgirl.com.au/blog/2010/05/26/geekgirl-sets-the-record-straight/
“And, you might be able to understand them if there was clear evidence of me running around issuing cease-and-desists to everyone and their dog. Which I wasn’t. Which I wouldn’t. Try me. Say “Geek Girl” in conversation now. Anything happen? No. Marvel as I do not beat down your door and demand an immediate retraction.”
That is just a quote, so please read it all and form your own opinion, but I am confused as she seems to be saying geek girls are free to use the term in conversation, and yet when I did so on Google Wave she pointed out she owned the trademark and asked me to change it.
Is someone else pretending to be here? Or are we allowed to use it in verbal conversation but not online?
i think being able to trademark slang or words in common usage sucks – however, let’s have full disclosure – from what i’ve read, you tried to trademark it yourself, only to find she’d beaten you to it.
Really great post Kate. Just google Geek Girls in Google Images – some pretty funny images. Certain people need to take a serious chill pill!
Certainly an odd use of trademark…
First of all, Rosie’s comments elsewhere about placing the trademark in “Creative Commons” has been debunked. Creative Commons is for copyright material, not Trademark material.
Second, the challenge here is really what’s called “blurring” in trademark law. Has the mark become diluted by non-compliant usage over time so as to remove the value of the mark itself? Trademark’s are an asset and therefore they have value. If however over the course of time the mark has lapsed into common vernacular then it is difficult to associate the mark with the value it was registered to represent. Basically, you’d argue that Rosie had a trademark in Australia on a term that through the evolution of common english has become part of the vernacular. The other interesting thing is the argument around the hashtag – Rosie trying to “protect” her Australian trademark on Twitter may be a breach of their Terms and Conditions, but I’d certainly say she’d not win protection over that even in an Australian court.
Finally, this seems like nothing more than an argument based on ego and hubris. The name “geekgirl” has no real recognition or commercial value as far as I’m aware. It seems to me that the use of “geekgirl” is meant to define a subculture. This is clearly a case of the law not keeping pace with technology – common sense would say, the trademark has no real commercial value to the owner, nor does it represent any significant brand recognition so therefore it really shouldn’t be trademarked.
I’m not a lawyer, but i’ve dealt a fair bit with this stuff. It’s a crap part of the law.
As Sean has indicated terms that have previously enjoyed the protection of trademark and intellectual property rights have those rights diluted considerably when the term enters common parlance. The trademark owner evidently intends on using the trademark for commercial gain(c.f. tshirts). This use of the mark flails in the face of the statement “online identity” which is not the same as a brand. The owner would be better placed to contest the usage if it were found to be an attempt to ‘pass off’ as herself (her identity was it?). Unfortunately its one of those discussions that gets great traction if tested. I would personally be intersted in learning the outcome of attempts to trademark a label for what could be defined as in other parts of international law as a “social group”.
To claim monopoly rights beyond those in your trademark is not supported by the law.
I really hope that Rosie does implement an appropriately permissive terms-of-use on her geekgirl trademark, as that would somewhat deal with the community/personal use of the term, whilst not undermining the trademark which she obviously feels is important to her livelihood.
Personally, I do identify as a geek, and see myself as a geekgirl (geekwoman just sounds weird
). And whilst I understand where Rosie is coming from, I have also been personally frustrated when she has tapped me on the shoulder to suggest I use a different term in describing myself.
The trademark could almost be genericised seeing the term is in such popular use nowadays, however a good terms-of-use would certainly appear to deal with most of the issues.
Just my 2c
I’d post the same on Rosie’s site but when I last looked it didn’t have comments turned on.
I just tweeted about this, and wanted to leave a similar comment here, basically agreeing entirely with Pia’s take on the situation.
To me, using the word “geekgirl” is like using the word “goth” or the word “emo”. It’s used to describe a group of people.
I can recall receiving an email a few years ago about someone protesting my use of the word “Erk” as he said he was an international musical artist based in Europe and on iTunes, he said that people were getting confused between him (in the music section) and me (in the podcast section). He wondered “what right does some guy in Australia have to use the name Erk as that’s my name.”
So I replied to him and changed some of my data on iTunes to read “Erk, Sydney Australia” in artist info on iTunes. I did tell him that I had been using the nickname Erk as a persona since the mid 1980′s and online since the late 1990′s so I had just as much right to use it as him. Most of my online ID and/or projects have had Erk in them somehow. I never heard from him again.
Then the other day, a guy with the last name of Erk found my podcast Facebook group (Channel Erk) and thought we were related. I mentioned (with the help of my mum, who is a host on Ch Erk and an admin for my FB page) that we aren’t related and he added both of us.
geekgirls FTW regardless who may or may not own the name.
Not our faults if there’s no spaces in hashtags or usernames or website addresses so it puts the two words together, sorry to rosie.. We wouldn’t be seeking to make any money from this and it’s great she has a business and she’s a feminist and she’s doing well for women. Cool. But I can’t believe her when she says she wasn’t on a warpath. The only time you should be feeling threatened with a trademark is if there’s any money to be made or they are making money from something someone else is doing. THEN go out on the public rage with it. Maybe we’ll have to use geekygirl as a hashtag and name for a blog for drinks meetups. Then again it’s all a bunch of #fail that this even happened
just wondering why you’d trademark the name/s on the same day as Alex’s tweet to you (which from the timestamp, seems to have been before the IPAus office would have been open?), and the day you accessed the quote from the Wave.
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/atmoss/falcon_details.show_tm_details?p_tm_number=1342744&p_search_no=1&p_ExtDisp=D&p_detail=DETAILED&p_rec_no=3&p_rec_all=3 shows the trademark was lodged on the same day as this – 28 jan 2010
if you already knew the name was in use (apart from the posts you refer to above, I’m assuming you knew already anyway due to mutual friends) – why would you want to use it for your own blog and events, and trademark it yourself knowing it had already been trademarked, or even knowing it was already in use by someone else and had been established for a long time?
even doing the search on the ipaustralia site would tell you it was already trademarked. let alone googling it. or asking people who’ve been online in Aus (& in general) for longer than twitter’s been around. it even says to do a search before you lodge a trademark on their site:
https://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/tmeform/
…
http://pericles.ipaustralia.gov.au/ols/tmeform/indexAfs.jsp
This is the starting point for applying for a Trade Mark online.
Before you start, it is advisable to:
* search IP Australia’s ATMOSS database.
…
because this seems to me that you knowingly wanted to cause a stir..
I remember hearing about Rosie using geekgirl term in the 90s (I was in Brisbane then – she was in Melb, so she was definitely known Nationally, especially in these circles) – the term wasn’t commonly used back then (if anything, we used the non-gender specific term ‘geek’). she was/is also known internationally (google it – OBN for one). there are plenty of other women on the net orgs existing and other terms that could be used – why not join them to show support, or make up an original name?
and about the comments above saying the trademarked term having no value – I think that’s hurtful. what if you’d just spent the past 15-20+ (whatever) years using a name as your online identity and working on sites/in community/on the net as this name. how would you feel if someone, who knowingly knew it was in use & your name, wanted to claim it. perhaps it has no value wrt it making a lot of money, perhaps it does – I don’t know, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value in other ways – reputation being one I can think of. I don’t know if the term makes $, but if it was your business name would you like someone to try take it over too?
a better approach I think would have been to ask the owner and say how about we collaborate on this – perhaps you could have offered to hold the sydney chapter events. and if the answer was yes or no at least it would be a more professional approach than what was done. I hope you don’t do things like this in your corporate career – not a good look!!
I don’t understand how Italy could have lost. How quick was that. I really assumed that they had a great chance to do well in this years world cup. Maybe in four years. Maybe its time to jump on the Argentina bandwagon. Looks like Demichelis has already scored. Go Argentina. To cheer me up from that devastating loss by Italy, I have been watching some funny jokes.. This joke is really funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3j7uSbccSc
is Rosie’s DEAD trademark territorial? if i would register GEEKGIRL [dot] ccTLD (eg. geekgirl.af) would that be illegal?
I would want to use geekgirl, but only as a url, only as a domain name. I plan to create an informative web/design/tech blog.
What do you think, fellas?
And what about Ms. Goodwin’s trademark application on Geekgirl Global?
I admire the priceless information you offer with your articles. I’ll bookmark your weblog and have my youngsters verify up here often. I’m comparatively certain they will find out plenty of new things right here than anybody else!
To commence earning money with your weblog, to begin with use Google adsense but gradually as your traffic
increases, keep adding increasingly more dollars generating programs for your internet site.
thanks !! very useful post!
Pasang Iklan anda di website kami, secara tidak langsung anda juga sudah memasangkan ke ratusan website lainnya. Sistem iklan kami OTOMATIS memasukkan iklan anda ke jaringan iklan baris kami (tanpa menggunakan software iklan atau mengisi captcha) secara GRATIS. Hal ini akan meningkatkan efisiensi waktu dan mengoptimalisasikan hasil iklan anda, baik di listing iklan maupun di Search Engine.